Carolyn Arnold’s FBI Statements

Support for Lee Harvey Oswald’s Alibi

Carolyn Arnold, a secretary working for the Texas School Book Depository, provided support for Lee Harvey Oswald’s alibi, that he was on the first (i.e. ground) floor of the TSBD at the time of President Kennedy’s assassination.

Statements to the FBI

Arnold was interviewed twice by the FBI:

  • The Bureau’s report of its first interview, four days after the assassination, stated that as Arnold waited outside the TSBD to see the president, she noticed Oswald just inside the building, close to the front door, at about 12:15.
  • In March 1964, J. Lee Rankin of the Warren Commission asked the FBI to interview every employee of the TSBD again, asking each of them an identical and very limited set of questions. In her second statement, Carolyn Arnold maintained that she did not leave the building until about 12:25.

FBI copies of both statements are reproduced below, along with an internal FBI document that clarifies the time mentioned in Arnold’s later statement.

The Timing of the Encounter with Oswald

The FBI reported that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald after she had left the TSBD. According to the first account, she had left the building by 12:15; according to the second, she left at 12:25. The first statement, which she was not given the opportunity to check, is likely to be less reliable than the second, which she was required to sign.

Both of Carolyn Arnold’s statements, but especially the second, corroborate the accounts of two employees, James “Junior” Jarman and Harold Norman, who indirectly attested to Oswald’s presence on the first floor at “between 12:20 and 12:25,” in Jarman’s words (see Lee Harvey Oswald’s alibi).

A Gunman Was on the Sixth Floor

A sighting of Oswald on the first floor at either of these times would seriously undermine the Warren Commission’s account, which was obliged to have Oswald on the sixth floor, assembling his rifle and his sniper’s nest, since before 12:15. There are specific problems associated with Oswald being anywhere other than the sixth floor at either time:

  • A credible witness, Arnold Rowland, saw a man on the sixth floor, holding a rifle, at 12:15 or very shortly afterwards (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.2, pp.171–3).
  • The motorcade, which was running about five minutes late, was supposed to pass the TSBD at about 12:25. Any gunman intending to shoot President Kennedy from the sixth floor would surely have been in place by this time.

Earl Golz Interviews Carolyn Arnold

In an interview with the journalist Earl Golz in 1978, Carolyn Arnold claimed that “she saw Oswald in the 2nd–floor lunchroom as she was on her way out of the depository to watch the presidential motorcade …. She left the building at 12:25pm.” (Earl Golz, ‘Was Oswald in Window?,’ Dallas Morning News, 26 November 1978, p.13A; available as PDF).

Golz quotes her as saying that Oswald “was sitting there … in one of the booth seats on the right–hand side of the room as you go in. He was alone as usual and appeared to be having lunch. I did not speak to him but I recognized him clearly.” She explicitly denied that her sighting of Oswald took place near the front doors: “Why would I be looking back inside the building? That doesn’t make any sense to me.”

When and Where Did Carolyn Arnold See Lee Oswald?

Carolyn Arnold watched the motorcade alongside colleagues with whom she shared an office. One of these colleagues, Virgie Rackley, specifies that “at about 12:15pm … she left her office” (Warren Commission Document 5, p.66). If the group left together, it is likely that Carolyn Arnold’s first statement correctly records the time of her sighting of Oswald as about 12:15, even though the location was incorrect.

Arnold’s phrase, “booth seats,” could refer to either the second–floor lunch room or the first–floor domino room, both of which contained padded benches “on the right–hand side of the room as you go in” (for photographs of the interior of the TSBD, see Warren Commission Documents 81 and 496). The second–floor room is more likely, however:

  • she and her colleagues shared an office on the second floor, next to the lunch room;
  • their most direct route out of the building would not have taken them past the domino room;
  • there was a stronger reason for her to visit the second–floor lunch room, which contained running water and a vending machine, than the domino room, which contained only tables and chairs.

The investigative journalist, Anthony Summers, also interviewed Carolyn Arnold in late 1978. He quotes her as saying that “About a quarter of an hour before the assassination, I went into the lunchroom on the second floor”, where she saw Oswald; see Anthony Summers, Not in Your Lifetime: The Assassination of JFK, Headline, 2013, p.92.

There is other evidence that Oswald was in the second–floor lunch room at around this time. In a statement to the Sheriff’s Department, Eddie Piper, a colleague of Oswald’s, claimed that he was on the first floor when, “at 12:00 Noon, this fellow Lee says to me, ‘I’m going up to eat’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.19, p.499).

Oswald’s Movements During the Assassination

If Carolyn Arnold’s revised account, with its detailed and forceful identification of Oswald, is accurate, Oswald’s movements at the time of the assassination would have been as follows:

  1. Shortly after mid–day, Oswald went from the first floor to the second–floor lunch room.
  2. Oswald was there at about 12:15, when he was seen by Carolyn Arnold.
  3. Shortly afterwards, he went downstairs to the domino room, and saw James Jarman and Harold Norman at around 12:25.
  4. At about 12:31 he may have gone back up to the second–floor lunch room to obtain a soft drink. According to the official account, Oswald encountered a police officer, Marrion Baker, and the building supervisor, Roy Truly, at the entrance of the lunch room. For a plausible case that Oswald instead remained on the first floor, see What Was Lee Harvey Oswald’s Alibi?.

The Authorities and Carolyn Arnold

The FBI’s version of Arnold’s second interview contains a trivial and obvious typo: A.M. for P.M. The Bureau’s account of her first interview contains more serious inaccuracies:

  • the area of the TSBD where Carolyn Arnold saw Lee Harvey Oswald,
  • and the strength of her recognition of him.

She was not the only witness who questioned the reliability of the FBI’s version of their statements. Arnold Rowland, for example, pointed out several errors to the Warren Commission and mentioned that the FBI agents “just didn’t seem interested at all” in evidence that contradicted the lone–gunman account (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.2, pp.182–5).

The Warren Commission treated Carolyn Arnold as it treated many other awkward witnesses. She was not called to testify before the Commission. Neither of her statements was published in the Warren Commission’s Report or in its 26 volumes of Hearings and Exhibits. The Commission discounted her evidence and that of Eddie Piper, and concluded that “Charles Givens … was the last known employee to see Oswald inside the building prior to the assassination … at 11:45am” (Warren Report, p.143). Carolyn Arnold’s five colleagues from the Texas School Book Depository who stood with her as the motorcade passed, and who could have commented on the reliability of her account, were also ignored.

Statement to FBI, 26 November 1963

Mrs. R. E. ARNOLD, Secretary, Texas School Book Depository, advised she was in her office on the second floor of the building on November 22, 1963, and left that office between 12:00 and 12:15 PM, to go downstairs and stand in front of the building to view the Presidential Motorcade. As she was standing in front of the building, she stated she thought she caught a fleeting glimpse of LEE HARVEY OSWALD standing in the hallway between the front door and the double doors leading to the warehouse, located on the first floor. She could not be sure that this was OSWALD, but said she felt it was and believed the time to be a few minutes before 12:15 PM.

She stated thereafter she viewed the Presidential Motorcade and heard the shots that were fired at the President; however, she could furnish no information of value as to the individual firing the shots or any other information concerning OSWALD, whom she stated she did not know and had merely seen him working in the building.

on 11/26/1963 at Dallas, Texas
File # DL 89–43
by Special Agent Richard E. Harrison

(Warren Commission Document 5, p.41)

Statement to FBI, 18 March 1964

DL 100–10461

I, Mrs. R. E. (Carolyn) Arnold, hereby freely and voluntarily make the following statement to E. J. Robertson who has identified himself as a Special Agent of the F.B.I.

My name is Carolyn Arnold and I am married to R. E. Arnold. I reside at 3325 South Tyler Street, Dallas, Texas. I am 20 years of age, born June 1, 1943, at Memphis, Tenn. I am a while female, and am employed by the Texas School Book Depository as a Secretary.

On November 22, 1963, at the time President Kennedy was shot, I was standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building. I was with Mr. O. V. Campbell, 7120 Twin Tree Lane, Dallas; Mrs. L. C. (Bonnie) Richey, 220 South Marsalis, Apt. 117, Dallas; Mrs. Barney (Betty) Dragoo, 2705 West Brooklyn, Dallas; Mrs. Don (Virgie) Baker née Rackley, 3600½ Live Oak, Dallas; and Miss Judy Johnson, 915 Sunnyside, Dallas, at the time President Kennedy was shot.

I did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at the time President Kennedy was shot.

On the morning of November 22, 1963, I do not remember seeing any stranger in the building housing the Texas School Book Depository.

I left the Texas School Book Depository Building at about 12:25 PM, November 22, 1963, and never returned to this building on that date.

I have read the above statement consisting of one and one–half pages and it is true and correct to the best of my knowledge.

Mrs. R. E. (CAROLYN) ARNOLD

Witnesses:

  • E. J. ROBERTSON, Special Agent, FBI, Dallas, Texas, 3/18/64
  • THOMAS T. TRETTIS, Jr., Specail Agent, FBI, Dallas, Texas, 3/18/64

(Warren Commission Document 706, p.7)

FBI Radiogram, 31 March 1964

TO SAC DALLAS (89–43)

FROM DIRECTOR FBI (62–109060)

ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY, NOVEMBER TWENTY–TWO, NINETEEN SIXTY–THREE, MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION CONCERNING.

RE BUREAU AIRTEL MARCH SIXTEEN, LAST AND YOUR AIRTELS MARCH TWENTY–FIVE AND TWENTY–EIGHT, LAST RELATING TO COMMISSION’S REQUEST FOR SIGNED STATEMENTS FROM INDIVIDUALS KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN IN TEXAS SCHOOL BOOK DEPOSITORY BUILDING ON NOVEMBER TWENTY–TWO, NINETEEN SIXTY–THREE.

BEFORE STATEMENTS CAN BE DISSEMINATED TO COMMISSION, FOLLOWING CORRECTIONS NECESSARY:

STATEMENT OF MRS. R. E. PAREN CAROLYN UNPAREN ARNOLD, PARAGRAPH SIX, LINE TWO, TIME INDICATED AS TWELVE TWENTY–FIVE A.M., SHOULD BE QUOTE P.M. UNQUOTE. IF THIS IS TYPO, BUREAU WILL HANDLE.

STATEMENT OF VIRGINIA H. BARNUM DOES NOT DISCLOSE HOME ADDRESS.

STATEMENTS OF MRS. R. A. REID AND MRS. ROBERT E. PAREN PAULINE UNPAREN SANDERS, SR., PARAGRAPH THREE EACH STATEMENT DISCLOSES DATE OF ACTIVITY AS NOVEMBER TWENTY–TWO NINETEEN SIXTY–FOUR. SINCE THIS DATE IS OF PRIMARY CONCERN, IT MUST BE CORRECTED.

STATEMENT OF JOYCE MAURINE STANSBERY PARAGRAPH SIX, LINE TWO SECOND WORD MISSPELLED. BUREAU WILL HANDLE IF THIS IS TYPO.

ABOVE CORRECTIONS MUST BE IMMEDIATELY HANDLED EITHER BY ADVICE TO THE BUREAU OR BY OBTAINING NEW CORRECT STATEMENTS FROM INDIVIDUALS INDICATED. HANDLE IMMEDIATELY SO DISSEMINATION TO PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED.

Note continued:

Commission by letter 3/16/64 requested signed statements be obtained from every person known to have been in Texas School Book Depository Building on 11/22/63. Each statement must contain six specified items. Dallas has obtained 75 signed statements and above corrections as indicated necessary before dissemination can be made. As soon as necessary information and data is obtained, from Dallas, appropriate dissemination to Commission will be made.

(FBI HQ JFK Assassination File 62–109060–55)

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22 November 1963

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